{"argument_date":"2009-03-31T00:00:00Z","arguments":[{"argument_date":"2009-03-31T00:00:00Z","heading":"What happened at the argument","official_detail_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcript/2008","official_transcript_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","paragraphs":["Ms. Blatt argued that Desert Palace largely resolves the case.","She stated the question is whether a direct evidence requirement applies.","Mr. Phillips argued the issues are unbelievably complicated.","He suggested the parties are ships passing in the night."],"reargument":false,"sequence":1,"sources":[{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 18, lines 45-35","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 18, lines 45-35"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 29, lines 5-15","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 29, lines 5-15"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 19-19","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 19-19"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 21-41","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 21-41"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 43-3","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 43-3"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 7-17","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 7-17"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 4, lines 25-31","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 4, lines 25-31"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 4, lines 51-9","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 4, lines 51-9"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 5, lines 17-21","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 5, lines 17-21"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 5, lines 25-29","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 5, lines 25-29"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 5, lines 47-3","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 5, lines 47-3"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 56, lines 17-3","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 56, lines 17-3"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 57, lines 17-47","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 57, lines 17-47"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 57, lines 5-11","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 57, lines 5-11"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 58, lines 19-21","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 58, lines 19-21"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 6, lines 11-17","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 6, lines 11-17"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 6, lines 21-25","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 6, lines 21-25"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 6, lines 49-51","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 6, lines 49-51"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 7, lines 43-13","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 7, lines 43-13"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 7, lines 5-29","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 7, lines 5-29"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 8, lines 45-49","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 8, lines 45-49"}]}],"caption":"Gross v. FBL Financial Services, Inc.","case_history":[{"changed_at":"2026-08-29T20:06:26.457695Z","explanation":"An official oral-argument transcript was verified.","status":"argued"},{"changed_at":"2026-08-29T20:06:26.482741Z","explanation":"An official oral-argument transcript was verified.","status":"argued"}],"case_status":"argued","dek":"The dispute centers on whether plaintiffs must present direct evidence to receive a specific jury instruction.","dek_sources":[{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 18, lines 45-35","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 18, lines 45-35"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 29, lines 5-15","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 29, lines 5-15"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 19-19","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 19-19"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 21-41","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 21-41"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 56, lines 17-3","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 56, lines 17-3"}],"dispositions":[],"latest_court_document_date":"2009-03-31T00:00:00Z","maturity":"official_transcript","official_detail_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcript/2008","official_disposition_urls":[],"official_docket_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docketfiles/html/public/08-441.html","primary_docket":"08-441","revisions":[{"correction_note":"Rewritten to the concise citizen-facing editorial standard.","created_at":"2026-08-31T02:23:04.751031Z","maturity":"official_transcript","revision_number":1},{"correction_note":"Migrated to the dated official Court activity contract without model use.","created_at":"2026-09-05T03:22:24Z","maturity":"official_transcript","revision_number":2}],"schema_version":"1.1","sections":[{"heading":"What this case is about","paragraphs":["This case tests the evidentiary standard for age discrimination claims. the side that brought the case seeks a lower burden of proof. the opposing side argues for a stricter direct evidence requirement."],"sources":[{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 18, lines 45-35","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 18, lines 45-35"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 29, lines 5-15","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 29, lines 5-15"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 19-19","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 19-19"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 21-41","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 21-41"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 56, lines 17-3","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 56, lines 17-3"}]},{"heading":"How the case got here","paragraphs":["The Supreme Court heard oral argument in this case on March 31, 2009."],"sources":[{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 7-17","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 7-17"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 58, lines 19-21","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 58, lines 19-21"}]},{"heading":"What each side wants","paragraphs":["the side that brought the case wants the Court to reject the direct evidence requirement.","the opposing side wants the Court to uphold the direct evidence requirement."],"sources":[{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 18, lines 45-35","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 18, lines 45-35"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 29, lines 5-15","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 29, lines 5-15"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 19-19","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 19-19"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 21-41","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 21-41"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 56, lines 17-3","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 56, lines 17-3"}]},{"heading":"What each side says","paragraphs":["the side that brought the case argues that Desert Palace resolves the case against a direct evidence mandate.","the opposing side argues that the side that brought the case and the opposing side are addressing different complex issues."],"sources":[{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 18, lines 45-35","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 18, lines 45-35"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 29, lines 5-15","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 29, lines 5-15"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 19-19","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 19-19"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 21-41","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 21-41"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 56, lines 17-3","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 56, lines 17-3"}]},{"heading":"What the justices asked","paragraphs":["Chief Justice Roberts asked if the Court ever required direct evidence.","Justice Alito asked if Mt. Healthy involved a bench trial."],"sources":[{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 43-3","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 43-3"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 4, lines 25-31","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 4, lines 25-31"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 4, lines 51-9","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 4, lines 51-9"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 5, lines 17-21","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 5, lines 17-21"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 5, lines 25-29","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 5, lines 25-29"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 5, lines 47-3","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 5, lines 47-3"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 57, lines 17-47","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 57, lines 17-47"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 57, lines 5-11","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 57, lines 5-11"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 58, lines 19-21","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 58, lines 19-21"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 6, lines 11-17","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 6, lines 11-17"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 6, lines 21-25","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 6, lines 21-25"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 6, lines 49-51","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 6, lines 49-51"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 7, lines 43-13","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 7, lines 43-13"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 7, lines 5-29","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 7, lines 5-29"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 8, lines 45-49","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 8, lines 45-49"}]},{"heading":"Why it matters","paragraphs":["This case defines the proof needed for age discrimination claims. It sets the standard for how judges evaluate mixed motive evidence. The outcome shapes future litigation strategies for employers and employees."],"sources":[{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 18, lines 45-35","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 18, lines 45-35"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 29, lines 5-15","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 29, lines 5-15"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 19-19","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 19-19"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 21-41","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 21-41"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 56, lines 17-3","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 56, lines 17-3"}]},{"heading":"What happens next","paragraphs":["This article currently covers the argument record. Use the official docket link for later case activity."],"sources":[{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 43-3","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 43-3"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 7-17","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 7-17"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 4, lines 25-31","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 4, lines 25-31"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 4, lines 51-9","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 4, lines 51-9"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 5, lines 17-21","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 5, lines 17-21"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 5, lines 25-29","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 5, lines 25-29"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 5, lines 47-3","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 5, lines 47-3"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 57, lines 17-47","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 57, lines 17-47"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 57, lines 5-11","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 57, lines 5-11"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 58, lines 19-21","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 58, lines 19-21"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 6, lines 11-17","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 6, lines 11-17"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 6, lines 21-25","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 6, lines 21-25"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 6, lines 49-51","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 6, lines 49-51"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 7, lines 43-13","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 7, lines 43-13"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 7, lines 5-29","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 7, lines 5-29"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 8, lines 45-49","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 8, lines 45-49"}]}],"slug":"2008-08-441-gross-v-fbl-financial-services-inc","term":"2008","title":"Does the Age Act require direct evidence for a mixed motive instruction?","title_sources":[{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 18, lines 45-35","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 18, lines 45-35"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 29, lines 5-15","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 29, lines 5-15"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 19-19","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 19-19"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 21-41","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 21-41"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 56, lines 17-3","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2008/08-441.pdf","page_label":"file page 56, lines 17-3"}],"topics":[],"undated_disposition_date_fallback":null,"updated_at":"2026-09-05T03:22:24Z"}