{"argument_date":"2005-10-11T00:00:00Z","arguments":[{"argument_date":"2005-10-11T00:00:00Z","heading":"What happened at the argument","official_detail_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcript/2005","official_transcript_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","paragraphs":["Mr. Frederick argued the case is a routine diversity matter.","He stated the original defendants are proper and diverse parties.","Mr. Joseph argued the property manager is not a real party.","He contended the lower court judgment should stand."],"reargument":false,"sequence":1,"sources":[{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 11, lines 1-11","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 11, lines 1-11"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 11, lines 31-35","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 11, lines 31-35"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 12, lines 29-37","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 12, lines 29-37"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 14, lines 1-11","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 14, lines 1-11"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 15, lines 49-9","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 15, lines 49-9"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 15, lines 5-11","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 15, lines 5-11"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 17, lines 1-15","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 17, lines 1-15"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 21, lines 1-13","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 21, lines 1-13"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 15-41","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 15-41"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 5-13","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 5-13"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 5, lines 15-25","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 5, lines 15-25"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 6, lines 3-13","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 6, lines 3-13"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 6, lines 31-11","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 6, lines 31-11"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 7, lines 41-5","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 7, lines 41-5"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 8, lines 33-45","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 8, lines 33-45"}]}],"caption":"Lincoln Property Co. v. Roche","case_history":[{"changed_at":"2026-08-29T20:06:29.285422Z","explanation":"An official oral-argument transcript was verified.","status":"argued"}],"case_status":"argued","dek":"A tenant sued a state board and a property manager. The state board claims the manager is not a real party. The manager claims it is a proper defendant.","dek_sources":[{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 21, lines 1-13","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 21, lines 1-13"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 15-41","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 15-41"}],"dispositions":[],"latest_court_document_date":"2005-10-11T00:00:00Z","maturity":"official_transcript","official_detail_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcript/2005","official_disposition_urls":[],"official_docket_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docketfiles/html/public/04-712.html","primary_docket":"04-712","revisions":[{"correction_note":"Rewritten to the concise citizen-facing editorial standard.","created_at":"2026-08-31T22:08:56.708750Z","maturity":"official_transcript","revision_number":1},{"correction_note":"Migrated to the dated official Court activity contract without model use.","created_at":"2026-09-05T03:22:24Z","maturity":"official_transcript","revision_number":2}],"schema_version":"1.1","sections":[{"heading":"What this case is about","paragraphs":["This case tests how courts identify the true parties in a lawsuit. It asks if a company managing a property is a distinct legal entity for jurisdiction. The answer affects which courts hear real estate disputes."],"sources":[{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 21, lines 1-13","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 21, lines 1-13"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 15-41","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 15-41"}]},{"heading":"How the case got here","paragraphs":["The Supreme Court heard oral argument in this case on October 11, 2005."],"sources":[{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 5-13","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 5-13"}]},{"heading":"What each side wants","paragraphs":["The tenant wants the case to proceed in federal court.","The property manager wants the case to stay in state court."],"sources":[{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 21, lines 1-13","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 21, lines 1-13"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 15-41","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 15-41"}]},{"heading":"What each side says","paragraphs":["The tenant argues the property manager is a real party in interest.","The property manager argues it is not a real party in interest."],"sources":[{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 21, lines 1-13","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 21, lines 1-13"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 15-41","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 15-41"}]},{"heading":"What the justices asked","paragraphs":["Justice Stevens asked if the defendant ever claimed to sue itself.","Justice Souter questioned if proper service makes a party the only one for diversity checks."],"sources":[{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 11, lines 1-11","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 11, lines 1-11"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 11, lines 31-35","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 11, lines 31-35"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 12, lines 29-37","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 12, lines 29-37"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 14, lines 1-11","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 14, lines 1-11"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 15, lines 49-9","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 15, lines 49-9"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 15, lines 5-11","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 15, lines 5-11"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 17, lines 1-15","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 17, lines 1-15"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 5, lines 15-25","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 5, lines 15-25"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 6, lines 3-13","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 6, lines 3-13"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 6, lines 31-11","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 6, lines 31-11"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 7, lines 41-5","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 7, lines 41-5"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 8, lines 33-45","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 8, lines 33-45"}]},{"heading":"Why it matters","paragraphs":["This dispute defines who counts as a party in federal court. It shapes access to federal tribunals for business disputes. It clarifies the role of property managers in litigation."],"sources":[{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 21, lines 1-13","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 21, lines 1-13"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 15-41","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 15-41"}]},{"heading":"What happens next","paragraphs":["This article currently covers the argument record. Use the official docket link for later case activity."],"sources":[{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 11, lines 1-11","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 11, lines 1-11"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 11, lines 31-35","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 11, lines 31-35"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 12, lines 29-37","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 12, lines 29-37"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 14, lines 1-11","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 14, lines 1-11"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 15, lines 49-9","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 15, lines 49-9"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 15, lines 5-11","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 15, lines 5-11"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 17, lines 1-15","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 17, lines 1-15"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 5-13","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 5-13"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 5, lines 15-25","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 5, lines 15-25"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 6, lines 3-13","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 6, lines 3-13"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 6, lines 31-11","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 6, lines 31-11"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 7, lines 41-5","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 7, lines 41-5"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 8, lines 33-45","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 8, lines 33-45"}]}],"slug":"2005-04-712-lincoln-property-co-v-roche","term":"2005","title":"Does a real estate firm's ownership of a property defeat federal diversity jurisdiction?","title_sources":[{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 21, lines 1-13","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 21, lines 1-13"},{"evidence_type":"Transcript","label":"Official Supreme Court Transcript — file page 3, lines 15-41","official_url":"https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/2005/04-712.pdf","page_label":"file page 3, lines 15-41"}],"topics":[],"undated_disposition_date_fallback":null,"updated_at":"2026-09-05T03:22:24Z"}